Question:
I’ll get the dosages, ok? I’ve got the levamisole tablets right here but have opted to go with Immiticide (split up into 2 treatments because the dog is heavily infested). They just say P-M 5605 on the pills, they’re huge-about 1 1/2" long. If you’d like I can call the vet and get the dosage. Keep in mind this isn’t an optimal treatment, my vet said it doesn’t always kill *all the heartworms. But lord-it beats having to be euthanized because the funds aren’t available for Immiticide treatment! And like I said-the vet who offers it as a last ditch effort has treated about 20 dogs this way. So far-they’ve all tested occult negative 2 months later. I can easily see it working if the heartworm load isn’t large. She said it’s relatively safe, a LOT safer than Immiticide. She had one dog lose his appetite for a few days and had loose stool. I specifically asked her about side effects. I imagine it’s relatively safe because it’s NOT as effective as Immiticide. It’s been used for a lot of years though. I wouldn’t hesitate to try it on a dog who was going to have to be euthanized otherwise. And besides-alot of us use the "softer" heartworm treatment with older or sicker dogs anyway. Which consists of putting them on Heartguard and letting the adults die of old age. MP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The reason you’ve never heard of it is because its not commonly used. Its >adult killing efficacy is questionable. The adulticidal dose is higher >than its microfilaricidal dose and severe side effects can occur at the higer >dose. >cause them? Would be interesting to see if the original poster can give us >this info. Perhaps the vet is using a mid-range dose – after all, negative >ELISA is nothing to ignore. I still think it might give a dog waiting only >to be euthanized a *chance* at life, though it’s not optimal standard >treatment. Unfortunately cost of treatment in rescue is always an issue.
Response:
I understand what you are saying, but this is the 3rd animal with fibrosarcoma I’ve dealt with and if we can keep him comfortable and happy for a couple of years without trauma, I think it’s worth it. Too many times fibrosarcoma reappears even before the original surgery incision is healed – then you’re looking at removal 2 or 3 times. I don’t intend to have parts of the spinal processes whacked off in an effort to keep this from happening, because I don’t think it extends survival time. Surgeries for cancer on animals are getting more and more radical – removing more parts in an effort to stem the course of events. I don’t think with fibrosarcoma that this necessarily works, its just that they don’t know what else to do. TCM is really a different way of thinking about treatment. Traditional treatment focuses on the *disease* and TCM focuses on building the health of the whole body. I don’t believe traditional medicine gives enough thought to what the body can do to heal itself if given the support to do so. I know you are thinking this is equivalent to doing *nothing*, but I can assure you its not. I don’t believe his *survival* time will be longer with traditional treatments. And I think his quality of life will be better. To me, that is a large part of the issue. I’m not talking about cancer cure here. I’ve spent a lot of time dealing with cancer. My whole family is dead of cancer – 3 people……and 3 pets gone, now another one with cancer. I already know what traditional treatment has to offer. Its just time to try something different. I can assure you this is not a decision I’m making lightly and without due consideration of what traditional treatments can do. I know you find this alarming, but tell me, in all honesty, what percentage of elderly cats with fibrosarcoma who have gone the traditional route have lived past 2 years? I appreciate your continued concern. The dog people would probably like to get this cat out of here! We should probably take this to email. Meooooooow! WOOF! buglady take out the dog before replying
I am not trying to malign you or your vet. I just want – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->you to give more consideration to conventional methods.
Response:
>I’ll get the dosages, ok?
I wouldn’t hesitate to try it on a dog who >was going to have to be euthanized otherwise.
buglady take out the dog before replying
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->The reason you’ve never heard of it is because its not commonly used. Its >adult killing efficacy is questionable. The adulticidal dose is higher > than >its microfilaricidal dose and severe side effects can occur at the higer >dose. > cause them? Would be interesting to see if the original poster can give us > this info. Perhaps the vet is using a mid-range dose – after all, negative > ELISA is nothing to ignore. I still think it might give a dog waiting only > to be euthanized a *chance* at life, though it’s not optimal standard > treatment. Unfortunately cost of treatment in rescue is always an issue. > 
The potential side effects of adulticidal treatment with levamisole has been described as hemolytic anemia, thrombocytpenia, arrhthmias and reticuloendotheliosis of the CNS. I’m not comfortable enough with my knowledge of levamisole to post dosages but I think adulticidal therapy differs mainly in terms of duration of treatment (weeks vs days). We don’t know for sure the other dogs were tested antigen negative – labs do run microfilarial tests as well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->On another note: Did you get the lab results on your possible hyperthyroid >cat with a lump? I’d be interested in knowing the results. You could > reply >here or privately. > and ravenous appetitie, no diarrhea, no palpable enlargement of thyroid. Am > feeding him 3 times a day now and adding CoQ10, beta glucans, milk thistle, > Essiac, Vit C, occ. cod liver oil rotated with flax oil and deep water shark > oil, dig enzy. with probiotics, and gland/organ concentrate. He’s already > looking better and more chipper. Rest of treatment isn’t worked out yet – > we need to choose an immune system modulator and homeopathic. Rest of his > bloodwork didn’t look too bad for a 13 yr old, but kidney problems don’t > become apparent in bloodwork until they’re really damaged. This being my > 4th animal with cancer I’ve decided to go whole hog and treat it > holistically. Vet says he doesn’t need a needle biopsy to see *what* kind > of cancer it is, that any kind of cancer is supreme expression of > dysfunction and that hyperthyroidism can also be seen as a tumor situation. > Since he uses TCM, homeopathy, supplements and diet, he gets a lot of *last* > chance animals. He’s treated 10 cats with hyperthyroid, 4 of them right > now are in renal failure – all these had RAI. He says that hyperthyroidism > is seen as a kidney problem in TCM. I think that’s why standard treatments > many times *unmask* kidney problems after the treatment. I’ve decided that > his chances are no better or worse going this way. There will be no *down* > time or shock to his immune system due to anesthesia and surgery. I can’t > imagine irradiating a cat with cancer. Vet says lump probably won’t > disappear, we’re aiming to keep it in stasis. If you’re interested in the > protocol, will keep you posted. Thanks for asking. :-) > I’m just about through with standard treatments for cancer. Friend of mine > with lung cancer was given steroids and antibiotics before treatment > protocol was even worked out. Turned more than one hair on my head white. >
I urge you not to abandon conventional medicine completely at this point – don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. I don’t see any harm in trying alternative approaches to managing the hyperthyroidism as long as clinical signs and thyroid levels are monitored. If treatments are not lowering thyroid levels and weight loss continues or a heart murmur develops you should reconsider conventional modes of treatment. It really concerns me that your vet is recommending leaving the lump. I cannot fathom how someone could lump together all subcutaneous masses as ‘expressions of dysfunction’ and not advise further tests. Perhaps a lipoma and a fibrosarcoma are both expressions of dysfunction but differentiating them is essential for proper therapy. You know this may be a fibrosarcoma and you know how serious a problem it can be. I urge you to reconsider surgical excision and histopathology. Even if you just get a lumpectomy with reasonably large margins done by a regualar vet it could be far better than leaving it in place. Histopathology results will let ou know exactly where you stand. Don’t take this the wrong way C., I am not trying to malign you or your vet. I just want you to give more consideration to conventional methods. Dogen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Whoops – sorry to all the dog people for interjecting a cat in here! > Meooooow! > buglady > take out the dog before replying
Response:
I’m sure she’d be glad to give me copies. She sends the blood off to the lab for testing so I’m reasonably sure the ELISA is used. They *do use Levanisole in other countries for heartworms, in places where the standard treatment (either of them) isn’t available. I did find references to that on the web. This particular vet only offers it as a last resort in cases where the dog will have to be let go (euthanized) because of a lack of rescue funds to treat him for heartworms. They’re dogs who’s only choice is the levamisole or death. She’s had good luck in all 20 or so dogs she’s treated though, they’ve all tested occult negative months later. MP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >The test used is the ELISA test for adult heartworms? Can you ask to see >the medical records? >buglady >take out the dog before replying >I talked to a vet today who has used levamisole for heartworm treatment in >dogs (rescues) that would otherwise have to be euthanized due to the lack >of funds available for standard heartworm treatment. She’s treated about 20 >dogs from 50-100 lbs with this treatment and so far all have tested >heartworm negative 2 months later.
Response:
If the ELISAs are negative after being postitive on every dog, its always better than death. Unless there are bad side effects to the drug – never heard of it myself. buglady take out the dog before replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I’m sure she’d be glad to give me copies. She sends the blood off to the lab >for testing so I’m reasonably sure the ELISA is used.
Response:
> If the ELISAs are negative after being postitive on every dog, its always > better than death. Unless there are bad side effects to the drug – never > heard of it myself.
The reason you’ve never heard of it is because its not commonly used. Its adult killing efficacy is questionable. The adulticidal dose is higher than its microfilaricidal dose and severe side effects can occur at the higer dose. On another note: Did you get the lab results on your possible hyperthyroid cat with a lump? I’d be interested in knowing the results. You could reply here or privately. Dogen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> buglady > take out the dog before replying >I’m sure she’d be glad to give me copies. She sends the blood off to the > lab >for testing so I’m reasonably sure the ELISA is used.
Response:
>The reason you’ve never heard of it is because its not commonly used. Its >adult killing efficacy is questionable. The adulticidal dose is higher than >its microfilaricidal dose and severe side effects can occur at the higer >dose.
cause them? Would be interesting to see if the original poster can give us this info. Perhaps the vet is using a mid-range dose – after all, negative ELISA is nothing to ignore. I still think it might give a dog waiting only to be euthanized a *chance* at life, though it’s not optimal standard treatment. Unfortunately cost of treatment in rescue is always an issue. >On another note: Did you get the lab results on your possible hyperthyroid >cat with a lump? I’d be interested in knowing the results. You could reply >here or privately.
and ravenous appetitie, no diarrhea, no palpable enlargement of thyroid. Am feeding him 3 times a day now and adding CoQ10, beta glucans, milk thistle, Essiac, Vit C, occ. cod liver oil rotated with flax oil and deep water shark oil, dig enzy. with probiotics, and gland/organ concentrate. He’s already looking better and more chipper. Rest of treatment isn’t worked out yet – we need to choose an immune system modulator and homeopathic. Rest of his bloodwork didn’t look too bad for a 13 yr old, but kidney problems don’t become apparent in bloodwork until they’re really damaged. This being my 4th animal with cancer I’ve decided to go whole hog and treat it holistically. Vet says he doesn’t need a needle biopsy to see *what* kind of cancer it is, that any kind of cancer is supreme expression of dysfunction and that hyperthyroidism can also be seen as a tumor situation. Since he uses TCM, homeopathy, supplements and diet, he gets a lot of *last* chance animals. He’s treated 10 cats with hyperthyroid, 4 of them right now are in renal failure – all these had RAI. He says that hyperthyroidism is seen as a kidney problem in TCM. I think that’s why standard treatments many times *unmask* kidney problems after the treatment. I’ve decided that his chances are no better or worse going this way. There will be no *down* time or shock to his immune system due to anesthesia and surgery. I can’t imagine irradiating a cat with cancer. Vet says lump probably won’t disappear, we’re aiming to keep it in stasis. If you’re interested in the protocol, will keep you posted. Thanks for asking. :-) I’m just about through with standard treatments for cancer. Friend of mine with lung cancer was given steroids and antibiotics before treatment protocol was even worked out. Turned more than one hair on my head white. Whoops – sorry to all the dog people for interjecting a cat in here! Meooooow! buglady take out the dog before replying
Response:
I talked to a vet today who has used levamisole for heartworm treatment in dogs (rescues) that would otherwise have to be euthanized due to the lack of funds available for standard heartworm treatment. She’s treated about 20 dogs from 50-100 lbs with this treatment and so far all have tested heartworm negative 2 months later. You give the levamisole pills (1 huge pill) once a day for 2 wks. Then keep the dog quiet/confined as you normally would after heartworm treatment. Please-has anyone heard of this?? I trust this vet, she wants very badly to help rescues and knows the financial problems that rescue groups have. I realize it’s not the "standard" treatment for heartworms but if anyone could give me some input/experiences on this I’d be thankful for your time.
Response:
The test used is the ELISA test for adult heartworms? Can you ask to see the medical records? buglady take out the dog before replying – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I talked to a vet today who has used levamisole for heartworm treatment in >dogs (rescues) that would otherwise have to be euthanized due to the lack of >funds available for standard heartworm treatment. She’s treated about 20 >dogs from 50-100 lbs with this treatment and so far all have tested >heartworm negative 2 months later.
Response:
Thank you for your answer. I’ve looked extensively on the web and have seen only a few references to using Levamisole as an adulticide. Some countries use it with good luck but it was stated (on one of the web sights) that in the US it’s not considered effective as the strength of the drug is different. Interesting but very inconclusive. MP – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Levamisole kills the microfilariae (the larvae that live in the blood) but does >not kill the adults living in the lungs and heart. Levamisole treatment will >make the dogs less infective but there will still be adults worms to cause lung >damage and make more microfilariae later. >Dogen > I talked to a vet today who has used levamisole for heartworm treatment in > dogs (rescues) that would otherwise have to be euthanized due to the lack of > funds available for standard heartworm treatment. She’s treated about 20 > dogs from 50-100 lbs with this treatment and so far all have tested > heartworm negative 2 months later. You give the levamisole pills (1 huge > pill) once a day for 2 wks. Then keep the dog quiet/confined as you normally > would after heartworm treatment. > Please-has anyone heard of this?? I trust this vet, she wants very badly to > help rescues and knows the financial problems that rescue groups have. I > realize it’s not the "standard" treatment for heartworms but if anyone could > give me some input/experiences on this I’d be thankful for your time.
Response:
Levamisole kills the microfilariae (the larvae that live in the blood) but does not kill the adults living in the lungs and heart. Levamisole treatment will make the dogs less infective but there will still be adults worms to cause lung damage and make more microfilariae later. Dogen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I talked to a vet today who has used levamisole for heartworm treatment in > dogs (rescues) that would otherwise have to be euthanized due to the lack of > funds available for standard heartworm treatment. She’s treated about 20 > dogs from 50-100 lbs with this treatment and so far all have tested > heartworm negative 2 months later. You give the levamisole pills (1 huge > pill) once a day for 2 wks. Then keep the dog quiet/confined as you normally > would after heartworm treatment. > Please-has anyone heard of this?? I trust this vet, she wants very badly to > help rescues and knows the financial problems that rescue groups have. I > realize it’s not the "standard" treatment for heartworms but if anyone could > give me some input/experiences on this I’d be thankful for your time.