Question:
Steve, I have a strong feeling you work for ____. I’ve heard exactly the same things from them and I made an official complain to the dissemination of incorrect information. > Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure. > There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not > yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been > established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food > is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more > critical to FLUTD.
So I don’t think you ever looked up on studies on the topic. There are published studies on both FLUTD and CRF x dry rations. Find some good vet school close to your area, go to the library and look up those studies. I’m sure you will have no problem finding them. Besides, about two years ago it was proven through another study that magnesium is not related in any way with FLUTD: Cornell has an Internet site with the study. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that > canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives.
So what are you saying? > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over > 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused > cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels > in pet food is without credence at all.
You’re forgetting a variable: the half life of a substance in a body. Salt is eliminated very very quickly while the three substances above build up faster then they are eliminated. One year of eating dry food daily may not necessarily cause any side effects, but an entire life of 15 to 20 years… Besides, why do so many cats have hypothyroidism? hipothyrodism? diabetes? and other metabolic disfunctions? Why are all these maladies always associated with dry foods? > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. > Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is > now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm.
When was this new dosage established? I suggest you go to every Internet site which talks about ethoxyquin and inform them that there was a change. Besides, if the dosage used was 30 ppm, the FDA would not be suggesting a spontaneous reduction to 75ppm don’t you think? > Like labelling > in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required > if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative > is also the same, it may not be on the label.
The paragraph above is EXACTLY what _____ (a big pet rations manufacturer) says to make people believe it is OK to feed their pets with those substances. Do you work for _____? (I’m sure you know which company I’m talking about). Wouldn’t it be better to substitute those substances for vitamin E instead of using such an argument? > A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
But I’m sure it would be OK to buy the lamb cutlet and leave it in the freezer for 3 weeks. Those products are all shiped frozen and they remain frozen until they are used. Where did you get that information from? Well, I care about my pets and I care about what I feed them. I don’t want to see them suffering from any metabolic disorder in old age, cancer or a recurrence of FLUTD which they had in the past. People do with their pets what they feel confortable with or what they are informed about. If people have a choice of giving a dry ration which no preservatives have been added to and if these people don’t have a problem spending a few extra bucks to do so, good for their pets. At least people are getting a chance of making an informed decision. Liz
Response:
> Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily.
Ha! You’ve obviously never lived in the Southwest US! -jj
Response:
> A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
It is shipped in refrigerated containers or as frozen meat. New Zealand sends ships full of frozen sheep meat to Britain, Europe and America and people are happy to eat it. If they weren’t New Zealand’s exports would be way lower than they are. Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
Response:
:I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel :dry food should not be used as main feeding…. (other advices snipped) on the other hand, my vet sez dry food only for my cat! there has been quite a revolution in cat food formulations over the last 10-15 years, so many "facts" about dry food are no longer. facts. as for the preservatives and ethoxyquin, i have many times seen stern warnings about these things, and as many times as i have done research and asked questions i have been assured that in a high quality dry food for cats these chemicals are entirely safe. i’ll keep my eye out for alternatives without chemicals, but in the meantime lennie stays on his diet of r/d, with which he has successfully lost over 4 pounds! (he’s lookin’ good, i have to say.) i’m betting the health benefit of being not-fat outweighs any problems real or imagined with the chemicals. not that i don’t appreciate the advice you offer, it’s just that my conclusion is 180 degrees opposite. same as the neutering thing! — rob
Response:
Some factual corrections are needed to the message below:
Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure.
There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more critical to FLUTD. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives. > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels in pet food is without credence at all. Plain old table salt is lethal at far smaller dose increases. To create the same level of sodium as used in the study you refer to it would mean that you add 16 pounds of table salt to a single can of Campbels Cream Of Celery soup. While the LD50 for salt in humans is about 5 pounds, no one would suggest that the 2,000 mgs in a can of Campbells Cream Of Celery Soup is dangerous. > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm.
Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm. Like labelling in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative is also the same, it may not be on the label. > Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard > time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I > remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones > that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz
Just because it is not on the label does NOT mean it is not in the food. If a food manufacturer buys the fats and meat meals pre treated with a preservative, they do not have to put it on the label. A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of course not. Many manufacturers play the game and buy pre treated ingredients then place big comments on the bag alluding to "No preservatives ADDED", or "Preserved with Vitamin C and E". Some years ago a lab tested a large number of so called "preservative free" foods. All contained the same levels of ethoxyquin as regular foods. Pure marketing hype which is used to play upon the emotions of the buyer. More importantly more animals are presented to veterinary clinics in very sick condition as a result of eating some rancid food than any other non trauma presentation to a veterinary clinic.
Response:
Hi Roger. I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel dry food should not be used as main feeding. A cat should eat one can of wet food a day and have the dry food as the treat. Cats who are only given dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic renal failure. Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. Read the labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer and bladder cancer. Of course the amount given to rats/day is much greater then the amount your cat is eating, but you can have some idea of the long term effects of these substances. These substances are also prohibited for human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. Besides, I don’t think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Roger.
Response:
> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food???
No, you are not doing him wrong by feeding him only dry food. He’ll be just fine. The only thing you have to watch is that he gets enough water. If you leave water out by the food at all times, chances are he’ll drink enough. (If let, he’ll probably drink from dripping taps, the toilet, plant saucers… 
Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
Response:
> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Thanks. > Roger.
Roger, Feeding only a dry food is not a "bad thing". There is some recent data that indicates that cats fed dry food ingest less water overall, even with plenty of fresh water available. The reduction in water through the kidneys etc, *may* increase the likelyhood of of FLUTD (feline urinary tract disease) but this is so far unproven. I would suggest a better quality than the Whiskas tho’. You can reduce your long term health problems and the incidence of FLUTD by feeding a diet which better regulated the urine ph and reduces the amount of magnesium in the diet. Steve Crane
Response:
Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing wrong by only feeding him dry food??? Thanks. Roger.
Response:
Steve, I have a strong feeling you work for ____. I’ve heard exactly the same things from them and I made an official complain to the dissemination of incorrect information. > Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure. > There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not > yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been > established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food > is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more > critical to FLUTD.
So I don’t think you ever looked up on studies on the topic. There are published studies on both FLUTD and CRF x dry rations. Find some good vet school close to your area, go to the library and look up those studies. I’m sure you will have no problem finding them. Besides, about two years ago it was proven through another study that magnesium is not related in any way with FLUTD: Cornell has an Internet site with the study. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that > canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives.
So what are you saying? > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over > 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused > cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels > in pet food is without credence at all.
You’re forgetting a variable: the half life of a substance in a body. Salt is eliminated very very quickly while the three substances above build up faster then they are eliminated. One year of eating dry food daily may not necessarily cause any side effects, but an entire life of 15 to 20 years… Besides, why do so many cats have hypothyroidism? hipothyrodism? diabetes? and other metabolic disfunctions? Why are all these maladies always associated with dry foods? > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. > Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is > now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm.
When was this new dosage established? I suggest you go to every Internet site which talks about ethoxyquin and inform them that there was a change. Besides, if the dosage used was 30 ppm, the FDA would not be suggesting a spontaneous reduction to 75ppm don’t you think? > Like labelling > in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required > if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative > is also the same, it may not be on the label.
The paragraph above is EXACTLY what _____ (a big pet rations manufacturer) says to make people believe it is OK to feed their pets with those substances. Do you work for _____? (I’m sure you know which company I’m talking about). Wouldn’t it be better to substitute those substances for vitamin E instead of using such an argument? > A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
But I’m sure it would be OK to buy the lamb cutlet and leave it in the freezer for 3 weeks. Those products are all shiped frozen and they remain frozen until they are used. Where did you get that information from? Well, I care about my pets and I care about what I feed them. I don’t want to see them suffering from any metabolic disorder in old age, cancer or a recurrence of FLUTD which they had in the past. People do with their pets what they feel confortable with or what they are informed about. If people have a choice of giving a dry ration which no preservatives have been added to and if these people don’t have a problem spending a few extra bucks to do so, good for their pets. At least people are getting a chance of making an informed decision. Liz
Response:
> Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily.
Ha! You’ve obviously never lived in the Southwest US! -jj
Response:
> A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
It is shipped in refrigerated containers or as frozen meat. New Zealand sends ships full of frozen sheep meat to Britain, Europe and America and people are happy to eat it. If they weren’t New Zealand’s exports would be way lower than they are. Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
Response:
:I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel :dry food should not be used as main feeding…. (other advices snipped) on the other hand, my vet sez dry food only for my cat! there has been quite a revolution in cat food formulations over the last 10-15 years, so many "facts" about dry food are no longer. facts. as for the preservatives and ethoxyquin, i have many times seen stern warnings about these things, and as many times as i have done research and asked questions i have been assured that in a high quality dry food for cats these chemicals are entirely safe. i’ll keep my eye out for alternatives without chemicals, but in the meantime lennie stays on his diet of r/d, with which he has successfully lost over 4 pounds! (he’s lookin’ good, i have to say.) i’m betting the health benefit of being not-fat outweighs any problems real or imagined with the chemicals. not that i don’t appreciate the advice you offer, it’s just that my conclusion is 180 degrees opposite. same as the neutering thing! — rob
Response:
Some factual corrections are needed to the message below:
Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure.
There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more critical to FLUTD. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives. > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels in pet food is without credence at all. Plain old table salt is lethal at far smaller dose increases. To create the same level of sodium as used in the study you refer to it would mean that you add 16 pounds of table salt to a single can of Campbels Cream Of Celery soup. While the LD50 for salt in humans is about 5 pounds, no one would suggest that the 2,000 mgs in a can of Campbells Cream Of Celery Soup is dangerous. > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm.
Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm. Like labelling in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative is also the same, it may not be on the label. > Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard > time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I > remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones > that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz
Just because it is not on the label does NOT mean it is not in the food. If a food manufacturer buys the fats and meat meals pre treated with a preservative, they do not have to put it on the label. A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of course not. Many manufacturers play the game and buy pre treated ingredients then place big comments on the bag alluding to "No preservatives ADDED", or "Preserved with Vitamin C and E". Some years ago a lab tested a large number of so called "preservative free" foods. All contained the same levels of ethoxyquin as regular foods. Pure marketing hype which is used to play upon the emotions of the buyer. More importantly more animals are presented to veterinary clinics in very sick condition as a result of eating some rancid food than any other non trauma presentation to a veterinary clinic.
Response:
Hi Roger. I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel dry food should not be used as main feeding. A cat should eat one can of wet food a day and have the dry food as the treat. Cats who are only given dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic renal failure. Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. Read the labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer and bladder cancer. Of course the amount given to rats/day is much greater then the amount your cat is eating, but you can have some idea of the long term effects of these substances. These substances are also prohibited for human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. Besides, I don’t think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Roger.
Response:
> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food???
No, you are not doing him wrong by feeding him only dry food. He’ll be just fine. The only thing you have to watch is that he gets enough water. If you leave water out by the food at all times, chances are he’ll drink enough. (If let, he’ll probably drink from dripping taps, the toilet, plant saucers… Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
Response:
> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Thanks. > Roger.
Roger, Feeding only a dry food is not a "bad thing". There is some recent data that indicates that cats fed dry food ingest less water overall, even with plenty of fresh water available. The reduction in water through the kidneys etc, *may* increase the likelyhood of of FLUTD (feline urinary tract disease) but this is so far unproven. I would suggest a better quality than the Whiskas tho’. You can reduce your long term health problems and the incidence of FLUTD by feeding a diet which better regulated the urine ph and reduces the amount of magnesium in the diet. Steve Crane
Response:
Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing wrong by only feeding him dry food??? Thanks. Roger.
Response:
Steve, I have a strong feeling you work for ____. I’ve heard exactly the same things from them and I made an official complain to the dissemination of incorrect information. > Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure. > There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not > yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been > established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food > is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more > critical to FLUTD.
So I don’t think you ever looked up on studies on the topic. There are published studies on both FLUTD and CRF x dry rations. Find some good vet school close to your area, go to the library and look up those studies. I’m sure you will have no problem finding them. Besides, about two years ago it was proven through another study that magnesium is not related in any way with FLUTD: Cornell has an Internet site with the study. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that > canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives.
So what are you saying? > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer. > Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over > 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused > cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels > in pet food is without credence at all.
You’re forgetting a variable: the half life of a substance in a body. Salt is eliminated very very quickly while the three substances above build up faster then they are eliminated. One year of eating dry food daily may not necessarily cause any side effects, but an entire life of 15 to 20 years… Besides, why do so many cats have hypothyroidism? hipothyrodism? diabetes? and other metabolic disfunctions? Why are all these maladies always associated with dry foods? > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. > Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is > now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm.
When was this new dosage established? I suggest you go to every Internet site which talks about ethoxyquin and inform them that there was a change. Besides, if the dosage used was 30 ppm, the FDA would not be suggesting a spontaneous reduction to 75ppm don’t you think? > Like labelling > in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required > if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative > is also the same, it may not be on the label.
The paragraph above is EXACTLY what _____ (a big pet rations manufacturer) says to make people believe it is OK to feed their pets with those substances. Do you work for _____? (I’m sure you know which company I’m talking about). Wouldn’t it be better to substitute those substances for vitamin E instead of using such an argument? > A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
But I’m sure it would be OK to buy the lamb cutlet and leave it in the freezer for 3 weeks. Those products are all shiped frozen and they remain frozen until they are used. Where did you get that information from? Well, I care about my pets and I care about what I feed them. I don’t want to see them suffering from any metabolic disorder in old age, cancer or a recurrence of FLUTD which they had in the past. People do with their pets what they feel confortable with or what they are informed about. If people have a choice of giving a dry ration which no preservatives have been added to and if these people don’t have a problem spending a few extra bucks to do so, good for their pets. At least people are getting a chance of making an informed decision. Liz
Response:
> Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily.
Ha! You’ve obviously never lived in the Southwest US! -jj
Response:
> A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become > a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium > foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New > Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped > to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would > anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back > porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of > course not.
It is shipped in refrigerated containers or as frozen meat. New Zealand sends ships full of frozen sheep meat to Britain, Europe and America and people are happy to eat it. If they weren’t New Zealand’s exports would be way lower than they are. Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
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:I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel :dry food should not be used as main feeding…. (other advices snipped) on the other hand, my vet sez dry food only for my cat! there has been quite a revolution in cat food formulations over the last 10-15 years, so many "facts" about dry food are no longer. facts. as for the preservatives and ethoxyquin, i have many times seen stern warnings about these things, and as many times as i have done research and asked questions i have been assured that in a high quality dry food for cats these chemicals are entirely safe. i’ll keep my eye out for alternatives without chemicals, but in the meantime lennie stays on his diet of r/d, with which he has successfully lost over 4 pounds! (he’s lookin’ good, i have to say.) i’m betting the health benefit of being not-fat outweighs any problems real or imagined with the chemicals. not that i don’t appreciate the advice you offer, it’s just that my conclusion is 180 degrees opposite. same as the neutering thing! — rob
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Some factual corrections are needed to the message below:
Cats who are only given > dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic > renal failure.
There is no factual evidence of this whatsoever. Two studies which have not yet been published show a reduction in fluid intake, but no link has been established whatsoever to renal failure. Phosphorous content of the food is much more critical to renal failure and magnesium and urine ph much more critical to FLUTD. > Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which > makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. While it is true that canned foods are heated and sealed thus requireing no preservatives. > Read the > labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: > unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with > ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer > and bladder cancer.
Again there is no evidence to support this claim. There are well over 450 studies on the use of ethoxyquin. To suggest that a study which caused cancer at more than 10,000 times the level in pet food relates to the levels in pet food is without credence at all. Plain old table salt is lethal at far smaller dose increases. To create the same level of sodium as used in the study you refer to it would mean that you add 16 pounds of table salt to a single can of Campbels Cream Of Celery soup. While the LD50 for salt in humans is about 5 pounds, no one would suggest that the 2,000 mgs in a can of Campbells Cream Of Celery Soup is dangerous. > These substances are also prohibited for > human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a > concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets > they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm.
Again factually incorrect, pet food maximum established by the AAFCO is now 100 ppm and the average in pet foods is around 30 ppm. Like labelling in pet food the inclusion of a preservative on the label is only required if the manufacturer adds it in the food. Human use of the preservative is also the same, it may not be on the label. > Besides, I don’t > think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard > time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I > remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones > that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz
Just because it is not on the label does NOT mean it is not in the food. If a food manufacturer buys the fats and meat meals pre treated with a preservative, they do not have to put it on the label. A little common sense will make this more understandable, lamb has become a very common ingredient and most frequently used by so called premium foods. 90+ percent of lamb used in pet foods comes from Australia and New Zealand. It comes by slow boat to California to be unloaded and shipped to the manufacturing plant. Minimum transport time is three weeks. Would anyone here be willing to buy a nice lamb cutlet and place it on the back porch for three weeks in the summer and then plan on eating it. Of course not. Many manufacturers play the game and buy pre treated ingredients then place big comments on the bag alluding to "No preservatives ADDED", or "Preserved with Vitamin C and E". Some years ago a lab tested a large number of so called "preservative free" foods. All contained the same levels of ethoxyquin as regular foods. Pure marketing hype which is used to play upon the emotions of the buyer. More importantly more animals are presented to veterinary clinics in very sick condition as a result of eating some rancid food than any other non trauma presentation to a veterinary clinic.
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Hi Roger. I’ve done a lot of studying on dry versus wet food and I feel dry food should not be used as main feeding. A cat should eat one can of wet food a day and have the dry food as the treat. Cats who are only given dry food are much more prone to lower urinary tract diseases and chronic renal failure. Canned foods do not contain preservatives either, which makes them much healthier then most dry foods on the market. Read the labels and stay away from dry foods containing BHT, BHA and ethoxyquin: unfortunately, most of them do, including dry Whiskas. A study done with ethoxyquin on rats gave them kidney cancer, thyroid cancer, liver cancer and bladder cancer. Of course the amount given to rats/day is much greater then the amount your cat is eating, but you can have some idea of the long term effects of these substances. These substances are also prohibited for human foods. Ethoxyquin is tolerated only in paprica and chilli, in a concentration of 0,5 ppm (parts per million) while on dry rations for pets they are allowed in concentrations of as high as 150 ppm. Besides, I don’t think any human eats chilli and paprica daily. You will not have a hard time finding a true premium dry ration without those substances. Two I remember are Nutro’s Natural Choice and Purina Pro-Plan (look for the ones that say "naturally preserved with vitamin E"). Liz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Roger.
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> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food???
No, you are not doing him wrong by feeding him only dry food. He’ll be just fine. The only thing you have to watch is that he gets enough water. If you leave water out by the food at all times, chances are he’ll drink enough. (If let, he’ll probably drink from dripping taps, the toilet, plant saucers… Miche Miche Campbell <*> Captain of the Starship Yentaprise These are not necessarily the opinions of the University of Otago You say Chaos like it’s a *bad* thing! Visit the home of The Jews Brothers, New Zealand’s premier Klezmer band! http://www.rouge.co.nz
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> Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. > I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a > bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he > can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that > until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing > wrong by only feeding him dry food??? > Thanks. > Roger.
Roger, Feeding only a dry food is not a "bad thing". There is some recent data that indicates that cats fed dry food ingest less water overall, even with plenty of fresh water available. The reduction in water through the kidneys etc, *may* increase the likelyhood of of FLUTD (feline urinary tract disease) but this is so far unproven. I would suggest a better quality than the Whiskas tho’. You can reduce your long term health problems and the incidence of FLUTD by feeding a diet which better regulated the urine ph and reduces the amount of magnesium in the diet. Steve Crane
Response:
Hi, my name is Roger, and I have a neutered male, about 2 years old. I was wondering if feeding him a diet consisting of all dry food is a bad thing. Currently, he eats Whiskas, and he loves it, seems like he can’t get enough of the stuff…As for soft canned food, he can eat that until he is sick, so I only give him that as a treat. So, am I doing wrong by only feeding him dry food??? Thanks. Roger.